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Q) I hear lots of questions around what3words, mainly ?why don?t they just use numbers like everyone else?, can you elaborate on why words are better than numbers?

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Q) Why does W3W not have any hierarchy? What is the advantage of the words being random?

oh, thats the ?closeness? question, good one

I particularly tried the app in Honduras where there is no address system. Q) What happens when your app/phone dies and you are in the middle of nowhere? I can ask for a St name to anyone but deuda.nasa.ameno ?

Stick to questions.

:+1::skin-tone-2:

Q) Hello @vicchi, thanks for joining us! A lot of our discussion has been around W3W *vs* Lat/Long, UTM, MGRS, etc. However, each of those has it's own use-case, and W3W probably isn't trying to compete with all of them. I'm wondering: *What is your target use-case for W3W? How do you envision it taking hold in that space?*

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@julien set the channel purpose: This AMA begins at 11amPST

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/giphy count down

?I grew up in Europe, where the history comes from? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6hijsqO8H0

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Hi Gary, thanks for participating in this with us!

So according to my watch it?s 7.00 PM in London which I guess makes it 11.00 AM.

Let?s do this

So hello. I?m Gary. I?m from London. Which makes me British. But as long as I keep the British English slang to a minimum you should be able to understand me

pavement == sidewalk

@willcadell: And bumper == fender

@vicchi: I love learning about people?s background. Where were you born and how did you get into the geo space?

I was born in Maldon in Essex which is the far East of England, which makes me an ?Essex Boy? (look up the cultural reference if you want to). I?ve been doing ?geo? since my very first job and been a map addict since I was around 8 years old when I learned to read a map in the Cub Scouts (the precursor to Scouts in the UK).

I?ve dipped in and out of the geo space over (cough cough) 25+ years but it keeps dragging me back and I gave in and embraced it about 10 or so years ago and I?ve been here ever since

>makes me an ?Essex Boy? So weird, I'm listening to Frank Turner right now and he just said this.

looks like you spent some time with the ordnance survey, so whats with this new addressing thing?

totally!!! my main question is why? what drove you to develop w3w?

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@willcadell: I?d been a real critic of the OS over the years over licensing and the way in which their geo stuff worked or didn?t work. And then I was asked to put up or shut up and so I contracted with them for a year and formed their APIs Group which is now bearing fruit. Which is great to see.

Then what3words made me an offer I couldn?t refuse

and what?s the plan to actually get people to adopt the new standard.

@robodonut: I didn?t develop it and can take no credit for it. That was @cjrsheldrick

(everyone wave to @cjrsheldrick now)

waves to @cjrsheldrick

@julien: What?s the plan? Global domination of course (mwah hah hah)

waves at @cjrsheldrick

Time to be vaguely serious

/giphy take over the world

>Q) Why does W3W not have any hierarchy? What is the advantage of the words being random?

We almost all live in a place where there?s a solid geospatial infrastructure

Fact: 75% of the world either doesn?t have an address or has one that just doesn?t work

So what3words has made an address system that works for 100% of the world as well as for the places where people don?t live or where you don?t deliver mail

But this is an address in the purest form, as in a computer address, it?s a reference to a location, it?s not a structured, hierarchical postal address with zip codes, or post codes as we call them over here

@savagemat: There?s no hierachy (apart from the one that really clever people and software can derive from coordinates) because from the outset what3words was designed with people in mind rather than software and because we choose to do something that allows error correction to be done easily

I am excited to say my office location involves the word badger? but i guess i have no relationships with any other badgers?

@willcadell: What you do in your private life is entirely up to you but we?re all adults here :simple_smile:

I?m currently at fears.restrict.warping

is there a thought around a 3rd dimension?

If we?re sharing I?m currently at http://w3w.co/index.home.raft and I live at http://w3w.com/plan.clips.above

@willcadell: Care to clarify that?

well, if one were to live in a tower of some sort

Ah. The old ?elevation? chestnut. I see

indeedy

This is really what I mean about a 3 word address being not a postal address alternative.

Is there a way to visualize the groupings of words? or what is the relationship used to create w3w with a location

maybe not so relevant, given the 75% of bad addresses are likely land based...

We?re making no assumptions about what _is_ at one of the 3m x 3m squares a 3 word address refers to

Not even if there?s anything at that location

so we could make cubes? like minecraft

@gisdev-km: So @julien is at fears.restrict.warping which is in Canada but if he?s at fears.restricts.warping (plural of restrict) we know that that?s in New South Wales, which is what I mean by error detection. The relationship between a 3 word address and the centroid of the 3x3 square is one-to-one; there?s no grouping and no hierarchy because hierarchy implies some form of human geography and we?re referencing a location not what?s _at_ that location.

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Let me put it another way ? people have asked about how we handle contested territories but as we?re a location reference we make no statements about _what?s_ at that location

We don?t say this 3 word address is in England and someone can say ?no that?s in the United Kingdom"

Yeah, the 3mx3m square I think answered my question.

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@gisdev-km: Excellent (wipes brow)

(several people are typing)

Gulp

so, an analyst (like many here) could conceivablly use the w3w base as a geographic / raster framework?

without any bias as to what exists at that spot??

@willcadell: Inasmuch as there?s a 3x3 graticule, I guess so, yes.

Q) Looks like you?ve started a couple of companies. Did you have any successful exits? What did you learn from being a co-founder?

@willcadell: There?s no bias in coordinates unless you want to start a CRS or map projection discussion (and please don?t, it?s like emacs vs. vi all over again) :sunglasses:

web mercator, the VHS of spatial references

As of right now, are the words ?english? only or will they be translated to other languages?

How do you suggest app developers leverage w3w?

Can you compare and contrast lat/long vs w3w?

@julien: The main exit was for when I started the OpenCage geocoder, which was built on top of tech developed by a company called Lokku who were behind the Nestoria vertical property search engine. Lokku got acquired and OpenCage was spun out and it still an independent venture.

OK. Lot?s of questions. Form an orderly queue please.

lol you can just answer randomly and maybe just @ them

@julien: What did I learn? Ship often, fail fast, don?t be afraid of breaking things and always know that you?re never finished

the sign of a true developer

Q) the w3w mantra is solve address where there is none, usually this is at poor addressed sites with low income. Do you think app based address is really a solution?

@gisdev-km: what3words isn?t just in English. We have English, Spanish, French, Portuguese and Swahili and are bringing out another 10 languages soon. Just as there is no one true map and no one true geo data source, there?s no one true language!

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Follow-up? are the words in 1 language translated to another? English: fox.big.white = Spanish: blanco.grande.zorro?

@ted_chapin: A 3 word address _is_ a lat/long but for humans. It?s more memorable than coordinates, it supports error correction and it doesn?t suffer from transcription errors

do you use culturally sensitive words? ie, whats the Swahili for badger?

@willcadell: No badgers were harmed

good

@gisdev-km: There?s not a one to one translation of 3 words addresses from English to another language as most languages don?t work the same way in terms of grammar and in terms of plurals

I figured. Good to know. Thx!

Q) if you could focus on any problem right now that could be solved with GIS technologies what would it be?

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@robodonut: There?s our API which you can use and there?s also our SDK. If you?re online then there?s the API. If you?re offline there?s the SDK. Which also sort of answers the ?what happens when my phone runs out of battery?. Sort of. But the real question there, to my mind, is ?what happens when I don?t have data coverage? and the answer is our SDK. All of what3words, in all supported languages in around 10 MB

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@robodonut: See http://developer.what3words.com/ for more detail

thank you sir

@antoniolocandro: I think I answered your question. Sort of. Holler if that?s not the case

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follow up to the language question: how does one translate the location between languages?

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@julien: Enabling locations ? which don?t have an address or will never have an address because the postal system doesn?t work that way ? to have an address which works the same the world over

lol glad you?re working on your dream :+1:

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@robodonut: That?s all possible with the API (and the SDK which has the same methods and feature set). If you need any help then you know where to find us. I?ve even been known to answer support emails you know :simple_smile:

As an app developer why would I choose to use w3w instead of traditional lat-lng to drive my geographic technology (whether that be routing / find nearest starbucks or whatever?)? What is the key differentiator?

@willcadell: Excellent question ? so here goes

You don?t type lat/long into your sat nav at least not most of the time

true

You do type in POIs and addresses, which only work where they work

i do use geolocation?

And even in the rural wilds of Central London there?s addresses which are incorrect

Or places that the search service doesn?t know about

thats true (i am intimately familiar with BS7666)

most of the state of Nevada comes to mind :simple_smile:

A 3 word address enables you to specify a location which the API or SDK (or mobile app or web site) can automagically derive a lat/long from (and vice versa too, we do reverse-what-3-word-coding too)

so w3w words are not random?

We?ve partnered with Navmii because they wanted to allow people to enter lat/longs but they?re too long and error prone so that use 3 word addresses to _get_ those lat/longs

@willcadell: And why are you even doing to Starbucks. It?s not even remotely like coffee you know

typing in lat longs would be a nightmare, but aren?t geolocation & reverse geocoding common solutions to that?

@talldave: They?re random inasmuch as they are 3 words which are unconnected, but there?s no hidden meaning

i gave up nescafe after leaving UK

@willcadell: Geolocation tells you where you _are_ not where you want to be

indeed

And reverse geocoding needs a decent long lat _and_ a decent reverse geocoder

Forward geocoding is an art.

Reverse geocoding can be a black art

ok, so then a 3x3m square will always relate to the same w3w

In case anyone wants the iPhone app of W3W what3words by what3words Ltd. https://appsto.re/ca/c4MnN.i

And forward and reverse geocoding are confined to a street address, which doesn?t work where there aren't street addresses

@talldave: Correct. Once a language is locked down, it?s there for good

coolio, so you are able to provide a more general base location service, not confined to urbanity?

@julien: And for the Android users - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.what3words.android

Where you at errbody? I'm at trades.rocket.beaker

Q) I want to go back to @antoniolocandro's question: >Q) the w3w mantra is solve address where there is none, usually this is at poor addressed sites with low income. Do you think app based address is really a solution? What this is getting at (for me) is - who is your target user? If you are talking about using w3w to refer to places that don't have addresses, do you expect that locals in these areas will adopt w3w?

@willcadell: It?s a truly global thing, not constrained to land or to population centres. It works _everywhere_

Here was my problem when working in the middle east that I could see W3W would have addressed for me at the time. No addresses. Streets were in a language I couldn?t read or write If I had an English GPS with w3w, and I ask the front-desk at the hotel i am staying at where the best restaurant was, they could look it up in their w3w, and say. tree.ocean.plant and I could put that in and get there

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Q) i?m curious how the 3x3m was decided, seems good to find humans. what about hexagons? or 50x50m for things like golden gate bridge

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@robin: This isn?t for low income areas. Nor is this for what?s euphemistically termed developing markets. This is for anywhere. For my mother who often doesn?t get post or parcels because the post code doesn?t accurately locate her flat. It?s for locations where there is no address, like in the middle of Dartmoor or the Nevada desert. It?s for anywhere and everywhere

Yes, this is a technology solution that needs an app of some sort

@vicchi - on that note, I know you guys have done work on getting the db/data matrix embeddable into native apps, how big of a footprint does it end up taking to add to an existing android/iOS app?

But we have people using this to deliver services to people and places where that service just didn?t exist, such as in Favelas where the local postal service have a mandate to ignore

@gisdev-km: You?ve got it!

Are you currently working with USPS, FedEx, UPS, etc. to bring these entities on board?

@talldave: We wanted it to be as accurate as possible, but consumer grade GPS is accurate to around that level. It?s a trade off between granularity and ease of use in terms of the number of words.

@slibby: The current version of the SDK for mobile is around 10 MB, code plus data

We?re working to reduce that even further to support the lower end of mobile devices

@talldave: Also we want to know _where_ on the Golden Gate Bridge a location is, not just _on_ the bridge, somewhere

Q) If, magically, the entire world was suddenly easily addressable; do you see a use case for w3w?

perhaps search and rescue

@crowdsource: We?re talking to all of them, big and small, all around the world

Any success stories of you or others in the company's interactions with them? Do you have buy-in?

@talldave: The whole world is easily addressable now with a 3 word address. OK. I?ll take my tongue out of my cheek. But yes, this is a good use case. Personal anecdote (well almost) ?a friend was driving out in a rural area and came across a deer by the road side that had been hit by a car but was still alive. He phoned the local animal rescue. Who wanted _his postcode_ and wouldn?t dispatch anyone to him without a post code. How broken is that. And this was around 40 miles from where I?m sitting right now

@crowdsource: All the time. We post news, videos and all that sort of good stuff here - http://what3words.com/news/

thanks!

What's the case for w3w, which is currently a closed system and requires an SDK (and I assume some kind of associated fees at some point?), against a more open standard, like Google's recently released Plus+Codes/ http://openlocationcode.com/ ?

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@jseppi: We?re a business and we want to make using 3 word addresses as affordable and accessible as we can to everyone and anyone. There will be charges for businesses using 3 word addresses in bulk. Because we?re a business we?re investing in what3words all the time, for new languages and really cool new features such as autosuggest for voice.

Do you see w3w only being as useful as its ubiquity? I.E. if I want street routing / strait line nav to a particular location via google maps / garmin GPS which doesn?t natively support w3w yet, would I have to translate it back to lat/lon everytime, presumably through the w3w app on my phone? If that is the case, it functions well for storing that location in-brain and provides error validation, but since I?m reliant on my smartphone for the translation, wouldn?t it be better to favourite that location electronically for portability/universality?

Q) what if a country or world organization adopts W3W as a standard. Or let's say the U.S. Post Office. Would you charge them? Shouldn't it be open and free for adoption. How will you monetize?

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But also (and I don?t want to get boring) 3 word addresses are for humans. There?s studies which show that the more you have to recall the more your precision drops off. With a 3 word address, recall is near perfect. With an alphanumeric code of 9+ characters precision drops off to around 10% and with coordinates recall is even lower.

@max: I think you?re right. If you can deal with everything electronically then that?s as good as it gets for the current state of tech. But if you get a human involved then we think we?re easier to use

so a human / geo interaction layer?

@willcadell: We?re an enabler. Just like a well known GIS company says it?s doing GIS for people who don?t know they?re doing GIS, we?re enabling location for people who don?t know they?re doing this and making it as easy as we can

How does it work offline? Specifically the coords -> words part .. is that all predetermined or do offline users have to 'sync' at some point with your server?

@julien: As long as we remain free for consumers and businesses who are getting value are being charged then this works for everyone and we?re trying to get that balance right

also, are you willing to release a comedy version with a selection of humerous / rude words (like your very own rude words map)?

for christmas!

@jlivni: The only time you?d have to get a never version is if you want a language that isn?t in your current version. The rest of the time, it?s all baked into the app and the SDK

@jlivni: This is all predetermined and algorithmically derived. No database. No back end servers. It can all work offline (or online if you use our web API but that kinda goes without saying I hope)

@willcadell: Someone?s already made what3emojii which made me fall of my chair and recycle coffee through my nose. Which was a shame as it was _really_ good coffee

@willcadell: Let?s wait and see shall we

good stuff

Cool, thanks for the explanation. That makes concerns of a single point of failure less of a concern.

@jlivni: (I mentally filed your reply under ?insightful?)

ugh, and it was so poorly phrased

So it's 8.10 PM here. Anyone else? Or can I head for home?

It's been about an hour

@julien: time flies when you're having fun and this has been awesome fun

uh sure. to drill deeper on that last point, it seems like in addition to your algorithm, you have a list of words (which is basically a database)

Gary you're off the hook now

oh hah

nevermind

you can guess my question and i'll ask next year :wink:

@jlivni: yeah. It's a data structure. Not really a database like Sqllite or Postgres

ok, well then i'll ask

Go for it

regarding the single point of failure, it seems like a concern is if you go out of business -- people won't ahve the list of words (even if the algorithm is trivial), and so basically it does seem like a proprietary database people are buying into

Last one for me, w3w is most useful implementation is for traditionally un-addressed locations, but with good access to connectivity. Are you looking to create pockets of micro-cultures as opposed to a universal standard, and which businesses/organizations do you see most eager to adopt such a culture? It seems your target audience is the rural briton as opposed to the rural chinese (no access to google play store probably the first in many obstacles to widespread adoption there).

Ah. Now I follow you. You're taking about a form of data escrow. Much like we did at Yahoo with the GeoPlanet WOEID dump i think.

This is something we need to think about.

Right, that seems like the one big concern I would have as some organization who would be considering adopting, and needing a lifelong guarantee

So it's been an hour and 15 minutes everyone. @vicchi you're welcome to stick around for a bit or head out. The channel will be open for the next 24 hours and then we'll archive it and post it on our site shortly.

Thanks a lot for doing this AMA. We've all learned a few things. Much appreciated.

@jlivni: We have thought about it: http://what3words.com/about/pricing/ and so far ... "If we, what3words ltd, are ever unable to maintain the what3words technology or make arrangements for it to be maintained by a third-party (with that third-party being willing to make this same commitment), then we will release our source code into the public domain. We will do this in such a way and with suitable licences and documentation to ensure that any and all users of what3words, whether they are individuals, businesses, charitable organisations, aid agencies, governments or anyone else can continue to rely on the what3words system."

Right. I saw that but didn't know if source code also meant "database of words" -- sounds like it does

If I can sneak in a final qn - is the 3x3 meter area actually always 3x3 meters - or is it actually in degrees? i.e. is it 3 x 3 meters regardless of latitude?

@max: you don?t need connectivity. The SDK works offline. And consider that until GPS went consumer, even long/lat was deemed specialised. Yes, you?re right, currently our mobile apps are for iOS and Android. But the SDK works anywhere you can run Java. And we?re working on Chinese language support even as I type. Well maybe not right now as it?s almost 8.30 PM, but you see what I mean

@jlivni: It does. Yes. You?re right

Hey @vicchi, thanks for your time today, much appreciated!

Very cool. Also thanks for the AMA

Thanks @vicchi!

@drinckes: It?s always 3m by 3m until you get above or below 85 degrees north or south which is further than most maps display and even then it only goes to 4.5 m at the poles.

... which doesn't really matter given the population at the poles is quite small. :wink:

@drinckes: I think the British Antarctic Survey might be offended at that but I take your point!

OK. That?s it for me. I?m heading to the joys of the London Underground (or the subway for my American colleagues).

I?ll check in on this channel on the way home when I get back above ground

Thanks for your questions. This has been a great AMA. Can?t wait for the Mapbox one next time

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL THE ANSWERS!!!!!!

WHY AM I YELLING??????

If anyone has any other questions or wants to chat offline you can always get me at or the rest of the team at

@robodonut: Premature caps-lock syndrome. Happens to us all

And I?m @vicchi on Twitter as well by the way

Great! Thanks @vicchi

/giphy loud noises

@vicchi: :clap: thanks

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I have to admit I'm beginning to see the use-cases for W3W a little more clearly. As someone who used to be out in the field actually acquiring all the beautiful data that goes into our GIS, and who occasionally had to communicate lat/long coordinates over VHF marine radios, I can see how having W3W would have made some aspects a little bit easier. W3W isn't trying to change how everyone addresses a location all the time, but providing a human-centered way that works great in a limited set of circumstances.

@vicchi uploaded a file: https://gisdevs.slack.com/files/vicchi/F0A2MNKDZ/heading_for_home._goodnight_everyone._.jpg

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